Stockton Rush obviously had a lot of knowledge. But sometimes, especially when accompanied by a super large ego, that is NOT A good combination. Three of the most brilliant large bridge engineers in America, in the late 1930's were Leon Moisseiff, designer of the Golden Gate Bridge, Othmar Ammann, of NYC, builder of the Geo Washington Bridge and David Steinman, later builder of the Mackinac Bridge in Michigan. These 3 men, while not collaborating, were aware of each other's ideas.
In the late 1930's these men all designed large suspension bridges....that did NOT get built as they all came in way over budget. So a new idea emerged, supported by all 3 of these gentlemen. Instead of the heavy deep trusses on the sides of the roadway, to stiffen it against movement, they were designed with just a simple "I" beam style girder on each side. These were called the "slender girder bridges" and 3 were built. Much lighter roadway and therefore much lighter bridge structure, and all were within budget and all were constructed. Moisseiff's bridge was built across Tacoma Narrows in Tacoma, WA and opened in the spring of 1940. It's violent ending, 6 mos later, is seen in this video:
This is 16mm movie footage of 7000 tons of steel, shaking itself to pieces, in only a 35 mph wind. I was awed the first time I saw this in high school 60 yrs ago! It is obvious that the 3 most brilliant engineering minds in the world totally overlooked something. It took several years and much lab work to realize that the wind worked on the roadway the same as it does on an airplane wing and lift is created. This is called "Aeroelastic Flutter" and was unknown up to that time. The 2 other bridges built to this design are still standing. One is the Bronx Whitestone Bridge in NYC and the other is 60 miles away from me here in Maine. Both have been strengthened several times, but both are well known for excess movement.
The best engineering minds on the planet can fail, as they did here. Stockton Rush had some good engineering ability, but his super ego kept him from thinking he needed to learn anything from anyone else. By deliberately NOT hiring those with technical backgrounds and experience, but instead hiring those with neither, he made sure that HIS ideas were the only ones that mattered. To say this was foolhardy is an understatement. No one human mind has all the knowledge in the world on any one topic. If he had lived he would be destroyed by lawsuits, and rightfully so. Perhaps his ending was not only direct testimony re his very large ego...and gift of palaver......but also more merciful.
Wow. What a great post. I knew about the Tacoma bridge as I'm from BC but I never fully understood the reason for its demise. Rush will live in history was a tragedy but I think with time, also a villain. I still fixate on last moments of the Titan. I hope there was no warning. But I suspect they knew. Thank you.
Trish, Thanks for the response. I am a history nut and was educated in Mechanical engineering. I like sharing things like this so people can really understand why something happened. Fortunately, very fortunately indeed, nobody died in the Tacoma bridge collapse. Engineer and prolific author Henry Petroski says that more is learned by engineers from failure than any other way. If a project is successful you never know for sure just how close to failure it may be. I bet there will never be another vessel designed like Titan and made in part from Carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is well known to be very strong in tension but weak in compression. It was a grave mistake to use it the way he did.
Being Canadian you have likely been in Quebec and seen the immense cantilever railroad bridge across the St Lawrence River. An earlier version of that bridge collapsed, in 1907, due to faulty engineering and I believe it is worst disaster in the history of bridge building. 86 men died in the wreckage. The tide was down and many men were alive and trapped under the steel wreckage but there were no acetylene torches to cut the steel and free the men. Priests were down in the wreckage giving last rites until the rising water drowned them. It must have been a truly horrifying event. I have thought about that for many years and cannot imagine what a helpless feeling the rescuers must have felt as they could not save any of them.
I think Stockton Rush had some knowledge, but closed his mind to any criticism, in fact he deliberately employed people who did not know enough about what he was doing to offer constructive criticism. He was warned by others in that field that that was the wrong use of carbon fiber but ignored them all. Does that make him a villain? Only history will tell us if that is so. He obviously wanted to make money to keep his project going and certainly pandered to some of the most wealthy on the planet. Perhaps it was partly a con game that he just was not capable of pulling off for very long. In any case if I were organizing a company to design and build such a vessel, the kind of attitude he had about all of that was just exactly the kind of attitude I would NOT want to have working on my project.
I've been trying to wrap my head around why a guy, Rush, would willingly ignore all the safety signals to such an extreme extent, and this episode finally solved it for me. "Dexter with an engineering degree", indeed. Rush must have been truly psychopathic. And, for someone in such an 'elite' setting, I can kind of understand that, for him, 'infamy in death' was preferable over 'living with failure'.
And thank you for reflecting on Richard Bilkszto. His case absolutely breaks my heart, and it also makes me mad as hell at those who push this hateful division and those that quietly let it happen. The apathy of those around me (family and friends) is hard to manage some days.
Wanted to mention too, Into Thin Air was such a phenomenal book. It actually got me hooked on non-fiction works. There are not many fiction stories that can out-do all the crazy stuff that happens in real life. Another fascinating read is Colin Angus', Beyond the Horizon, about his travel by human power around the world. And he lives in BC.
It's been close to 20 years since I read it, but the story of Beck Weathers always stuck in my head. My early impression of him was that he was a bit egotistical, but that changed quick. The fact that he was on the very edge of death, but yet managed to keep himself moving to the next base camp was inspirational. How could I be judgemental of someone with that much fortitude.
His wife, Peaches stood by him. My God. How did he make it back to camp in that storm.?And then they abandoned him again. I think his book was called Left for Dead or something. Lost his fingers and toes I think. Very interesting guy. Was he a doctor?
I was thinking about the folks who do "extreme tourism" (amateurs climbing Mt. Everest; the paying occupants of the Titan) and it occurs to me there might be a couple of things going on in people's minds. First, I think there is great, and sometimes quite unwarranted, trust in "experts", similar to how I USED to trust the institutions in Canada pre-Covid insanity. I also think that recent generations have been nanny-stated to death, cradle to grave, and start to think that the world is really just a Disneyland where no one really gets hurt. I realized that I fell into that category on a safari in Kenya a few years ago. We were barrelling along a dirt path in the Masai Mara during the Great Migration, when my favourite baseball cap flew off my head. Without thinking, I shouted to the driver - "Hey! Can you stop? My hat blew off onto the track!" I assured him I would just hop out and get it. The look on the guide's face. City girl thinks the local lions will just let her run and grab it. I was so mortified when I realized what could have happened had he let me do that, but this is what I mean. We just don't think we can get hurt out there. Someone will always rescue us.
Brilliant connection! You are correct. I learned the hard way in Africa during the civil war in Burundi that we take safety for granted. Thank God he gave you the stink eye!
I find it harsh to judge the paying passengers. I suppose if you have tons of money you may want to spend it doing things others could only dream about doing, which is your right. I don't think it's fair to suppose that their egos were the crux of their wanting to be a part of the expedition ("bragging rights"). The blame should be solely focused on Rush and his company/team. The passengers put their faith and trust in him and the fact that he was leading the expedition made it seem all the more like a safe venture. Who would even imagine that the owner of the company would put his own life at risk? I totally agree though, with the assessment drawn about climbers of Mt. Everest. I have often thought about all the Sherpa guides who have needlessly lost their lives at the expense of wealthy risk-seekers, as well as all the innocent family members who suffer due to their loved ones' lust for adventure. Would that these people use their money, talent and interminable drive in endeavors that would instruct and enhance the lives of those around them, aiding in the betterment of their communities and mankind rather than attempting to place another notch on their ego belt.
Sherpa's are the truth that show the weakness of celebrity climbers. Yes, the Sherpa's are acclimatized but they also take the mountain very seriously. And they are truly talented. I think they now get more applause than they used to. They have saved many a hubristic climber from sure death.
Wonderful episode Trish! I throughly enjoyed learning more about the makings of a submersible craft, and I especially enjoyed hearing about who Stockton Rush was.
Karl Stanley was amazing in his knowledge, on all levels. The comparison to Everest bragging rights, completely hits the nail on the head.
The Titan tragedy was an event that didn't need to happen, but it sounds like Mr.Rush was willing to gamble his life, and the lives of the other poor souls, on purpose.
Great episode Trish. I also tend to go down rabbit holes out of boredom. Curiously as of late I look more forward to being bored . It gives me a reprieve from present day Canada.
Stockton Rush obviously had a lot of knowledge. But sometimes, especially when accompanied by a super large ego, that is NOT A good combination. Three of the most brilliant large bridge engineers in America, in the late 1930's were Leon Moisseiff, designer of the Golden Gate Bridge, Othmar Ammann, of NYC, builder of the Geo Washington Bridge and David Steinman, later builder of the Mackinac Bridge in Michigan. These 3 men, while not collaborating, were aware of each other's ideas.
In the late 1930's these men all designed large suspension bridges....that did NOT get built as they all came in way over budget. So a new idea emerged, supported by all 3 of these gentlemen. Instead of the heavy deep trusses on the sides of the roadway, to stiffen it against movement, they were designed with just a simple "I" beam style girder on each side. These were called the "slender girder bridges" and 3 were built. Much lighter roadway and therefore much lighter bridge structure, and all were within budget and all were constructed. Moisseiff's bridge was built across Tacoma Narrows in Tacoma, WA and opened in the spring of 1940. It's violent ending, 6 mos later, is seen in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsKKDLKYsVU
This is 16mm movie footage of 7000 tons of steel, shaking itself to pieces, in only a 35 mph wind. I was awed the first time I saw this in high school 60 yrs ago! It is obvious that the 3 most brilliant engineering minds in the world totally overlooked something. It took several years and much lab work to realize that the wind worked on the roadway the same as it does on an airplane wing and lift is created. This is called "Aeroelastic Flutter" and was unknown up to that time. The 2 other bridges built to this design are still standing. One is the Bronx Whitestone Bridge in NYC and the other is 60 miles away from me here in Maine. Both have been strengthened several times, but both are well known for excess movement.
The best engineering minds on the planet can fail, as they did here. Stockton Rush had some good engineering ability, but his super ego kept him from thinking he needed to learn anything from anyone else. By deliberately NOT hiring those with technical backgrounds and experience, but instead hiring those with neither, he made sure that HIS ideas were the only ones that mattered. To say this was foolhardy is an understatement. No one human mind has all the knowledge in the world on any one topic. If he had lived he would be destroyed by lawsuits, and rightfully so. Perhaps his ending was not only direct testimony re his very large ego...and gift of palaver......but also more merciful.
Wow. What a great post. I knew about the Tacoma bridge as I'm from BC but I never fully understood the reason for its demise. Rush will live in history was a tragedy but I think with time, also a villain. I still fixate on last moments of the Titan. I hope there was no warning. But I suspect they knew. Thank you.
Trish, Thanks for the response. I am a history nut and was educated in Mechanical engineering. I like sharing things like this so people can really understand why something happened. Fortunately, very fortunately indeed, nobody died in the Tacoma bridge collapse. Engineer and prolific author Henry Petroski says that more is learned by engineers from failure than any other way. If a project is successful you never know for sure just how close to failure it may be. I bet there will never be another vessel designed like Titan and made in part from Carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is well known to be very strong in tension but weak in compression. It was a grave mistake to use it the way he did.
Being Canadian you have likely been in Quebec and seen the immense cantilever railroad bridge across the St Lawrence River. An earlier version of that bridge collapsed, in 1907, due to faulty engineering and I believe it is worst disaster in the history of bridge building. 86 men died in the wreckage. The tide was down and many men were alive and trapped under the steel wreckage but there were no acetylene torches to cut the steel and free the men. Priests were down in the wreckage giving last rites until the rising water drowned them. It must have been a truly horrifying event. I have thought about that for many years and cannot imagine what a helpless feeling the rescuers must have felt as they could not save any of them.
Video story on the Quebec bridge disaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4DTMe0huXM
I think Stockton Rush had some knowledge, but closed his mind to any criticism, in fact he deliberately employed people who did not know enough about what he was doing to offer constructive criticism. He was warned by others in that field that that was the wrong use of carbon fiber but ignored them all. Does that make him a villain? Only history will tell us if that is so. He obviously wanted to make money to keep his project going and certainly pandered to some of the most wealthy on the planet. Perhaps it was partly a con game that he just was not capable of pulling off for very long. In any case if I were organizing a company to design and build such a vessel, the kind of attitude he had about all of that was just exactly the kind of attitude I would NOT want to have working on my project.
I've been trying to wrap my head around why a guy, Rush, would willingly ignore all the safety signals to such an extreme extent, and this episode finally solved it for me. "Dexter with an engineering degree", indeed. Rush must have been truly psychopathic. And, for someone in such an 'elite' setting, I can kind of understand that, for him, 'infamy in death' was preferable over 'living with failure'.
And thank you for reflecting on Richard Bilkszto. His case absolutely breaks my heart, and it also makes me mad as hell at those who push this hateful division and those that quietly let it happen. The apathy of those around me (family and friends) is hard to manage some days.
Wanted to mention too, Into Thin Air was such a phenomenal book. It actually got me hooked on non-fiction works. There are not many fiction stories that can out-do all the crazy stuff that happens in real life. Another fascinating read is Colin Angus', Beyond the Horizon, about his travel by human power around the world. And he lives in BC.
Same about Into Thin Air..I keep rereading in awe of the story and Krakauer's talent.
It's been close to 20 years since I read it, but the story of Beck Weathers always stuck in my head. My early impression of him was that he was a bit egotistical, but that changed quick. The fact that he was on the very edge of death, but yet managed to keep himself moving to the next base camp was inspirational. How could I be judgemental of someone with that much fortitude.
His wife, Peaches stood by him. My God. How did he make it back to camp in that storm.?And then they abandoned him again. I think his book was called Left for Dead or something. Lost his fingers and toes I think. Very interesting guy. Was he a doctor?
I was thinking about the folks who do "extreme tourism" (amateurs climbing Mt. Everest; the paying occupants of the Titan) and it occurs to me there might be a couple of things going on in people's minds. First, I think there is great, and sometimes quite unwarranted, trust in "experts", similar to how I USED to trust the institutions in Canada pre-Covid insanity. I also think that recent generations have been nanny-stated to death, cradle to grave, and start to think that the world is really just a Disneyland where no one really gets hurt. I realized that I fell into that category on a safari in Kenya a few years ago. We were barrelling along a dirt path in the Masai Mara during the Great Migration, when my favourite baseball cap flew off my head. Without thinking, I shouted to the driver - "Hey! Can you stop? My hat blew off onto the track!" I assured him I would just hop out and get it. The look on the guide's face. City girl thinks the local lions will just let her run and grab it. I was so mortified when I realized what could have happened had he let me do that, but this is what I mean. We just don't think we can get hurt out there. Someone will always rescue us.
Brilliant connection! You are correct. I learned the hard way in Africa during the civil war in Burundi that we take safety for granted. Thank God he gave you the stink eye!
I find it harsh to judge the paying passengers. I suppose if you have tons of money you may want to spend it doing things others could only dream about doing, which is your right. I don't think it's fair to suppose that their egos were the crux of their wanting to be a part of the expedition ("bragging rights"). The blame should be solely focused on Rush and his company/team. The passengers put their faith and trust in him and the fact that he was leading the expedition made it seem all the more like a safe venture. Who would even imagine that the owner of the company would put his own life at risk? I totally agree though, with the assessment drawn about climbers of Mt. Everest. I have often thought about all the Sherpa guides who have needlessly lost their lives at the expense of wealthy risk-seekers, as well as all the innocent family members who suffer due to their loved ones' lust for adventure. Would that these people use their money, talent and interminable drive in endeavors that would instruct and enhance the lives of those around them, aiding in the betterment of their communities and mankind rather than attempting to place another notch on their ego belt.
Sherpa's are the truth that show the weakness of celebrity climbers. Yes, the Sherpa's are acclimatized but they also take the mountain very seriously. And they are truly talented. I think they now get more applause than they used to. They have saved many a hubristic climber from sure death.
Wonderful episode Trish! I throughly enjoyed learning more about the makings of a submersible craft, and I especially enjoyed hearing about who Stockton Rush was.
Karl Stanley was amazing in his knowledge, on all levels. The comparison to Everest bragging rights, completely hits the nail on the head.
The Titan tragedy was an event that didn't need to happen, but it sounds like Mr.Rush was willing to gamble his life, and the lives of the other poor souls, on purpose.
It will make a great movie. And doc series. I'm sure both are in the works. With luck, someone of Krakauer's talent will take on the book.
Great episode Trish. I also tend to go down rabbit holes out of boredom. Curiously as of late I look more forward to being bored . It gives me a reprieve from present day Canada.
My husband and I have left Canada in order to live in a 3rd World country, just to have our freedoms back.
Never, in a million years, would I have dreamt Canada could become so broken.
Was a great listen, thank you.